Who is Kroger Babb ...and what is his connection to John Waters? Part One

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Perf Damage. Welcome. This is the place where we talk about our favorite movies and the people that made them. That's right. And this week we have a tale about a guy named Kroger Babb, a producer that you may have never heard of. I didn't. I'd never heard of him. I had neither but it turned out he's a guy that inspired William Castle and John Waters. That's right. And John Waters. But is not very well remembered.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And what we're going to do is we're going to find out why. We're going to find out who he is. Who he is. Why so influential. Why was he influential? And why no one remembers him. Why isn't he more well remembered?

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You know I can't remember. So dumb. Sorry. So if you want to hear more about Kroger Babb and learn about the guy that inspired all those other cool dudes, stay tuned.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_00]: To Perf Damage. Where a movie obsessed husband and wife team who work in the film industry. I ever see film restoration at Hollywood's oldest studio. And I bring the inside track from film development and production. And we love to explore the hidden tales of movies past and present.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So join us for a cinematic journey like no other. From classic gyms to examining the art of the double feature. This is Perf Damage. Popcorn Pop.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Wine at the ready. Let's breast play.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, welcome back.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome. And let's get into talking about Kroger Babb. We found out about Kroger Babb by going to the John Waters Pope of Trash exhibit at the Academy Museum in Hollywood.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is awesome by the way.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really cool.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: About William Castle.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You're ruining my flow, bro.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So we see this thing on William Castle. We see all these little, you know, little memorabilia that he had. And then you walk down a little bit further and there was a poster for this movie called Mom and Dad.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it said a Kroger Babb production.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And we were like who the heck is this guy?

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I said who the heck's Kroger Babb?

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So we get home and the first thing we do is we look up Kroger Babb and we can't really find that much information on him which there's a light bulb that goes off.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: He's definitely that kind of carny, impresario, bigger than life character that we like to talk about.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We do. We do like those.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, there would be no John Waters or William Castle without...

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Possibly.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: First, there being a Kroger Babb.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: John Waters did say that when he saw Mom and Dad, that is the single film that inspired him to become a filmmaker.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So he was so impressed with that film and the shocking aspect of it that he knew he wanted to be a shock filmmaker.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's start at the beginning.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Kroger Babb was born Howard W. Babb in Lees Creek, Ohio in 1906.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay wait. So his name is not Kroger.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So why is he called Kroger Babb?

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Kroger is his nickname.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The nickname that he got when he was a kid.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And so do you have the story of how he got that nickname?

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Well here's the thing. Just like all things Kroger Babb, there are multiple stories about how he got his nickname.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Kenneth Turin wrote an article and in that article he said that he got his nickname from his father's favorite brand of coffee which was BH Kroger brand coffee.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Why would he get it from his father's brand of coffee?

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't make any sense.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the other one?

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the one that I think is the true story.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: This came from David F. Friedman's autobiography and this is an account from Kroger Babb himself.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: As a kid, I worked after school in Saturdays at the Kroger store in Wilmington.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And all the other kids started calling me Kroger and it stuck so he used that ever ever since.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Babb started his working career as a sports reporter for the local paper.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And he even earned a sighting in Ripley's Believe It or Not.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Well this is, you know, because he likes to self promote for a record number of refereeing youth sporting events.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay was there a record before?

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. I don't know.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually while he was working at the newspaper, he was promoted to the paper's advertising manager.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is where he fell.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds dangerous.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah he fell in love with the art of promotion.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: He's always had an affinity for self promotion and he was attracted to publicity so in 1934,

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Babb became the director of advertising and publicity for, now pardon me if I say this wrong,

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think it's Warner Shakira's.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Warner Shakira's was the Midwest theater holdings for Warner Brothers Pictures.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So like a local company that owned all the,

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: A big group of, a chain of theaters that Warner's owned.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So this was before they broke up in,

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: This was before the Paramount Decree?

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Paramount Decree yes.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so this was the Great Depression and there were a lot of people out of work

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and so a lot of people would do these crazy stunts to earn money.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Always dangerous stunts.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a guy who would strap himself to a rocket and they'd set the rocket off.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: He ended up dying eventually but.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh no shit.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah so they would do these kind of things.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: People were desperate.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So and they would always attract a big crowd.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a good way to promote and so Kroger saw all of these things happening.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It was no different than Harry Houdini.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Right absolutely.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it's the same kind of situation.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Except for these people were less talented.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Less worried about safety.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and certainly not worried about safety at all.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So he came up with the idea of burying somebody in the ground outside of movie theaters.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So they would break up the concrete, they dig a hole

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and they would bury him like 10 feet in the ground

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and he would go into this coffin with it.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: 10 feet?

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Why not six?

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But 10 feet.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: He was in this little coffin with a window in it so you could see his face.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That little.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Well I mean, I don't think it was that little.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's impressive.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So they would feed him soup and he would go in the ground for like a week

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: while the whole run of the show basically.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So a movie would come in, it would run for a week

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and he would be buried in the ground promoting that film.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: He had a little phone.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically you could just talk to him if you wanted to.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: He's on display and people would gather around

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and talk to him and do that kind of stuff.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So this was really successful for Kroger Bab.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, this guy got so popular that after Kroger was done using him

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: for promotion he went around and opened supermarkets

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and grocery stores and things like that.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: This guy actually had a career.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, there is a movie tone news reel with Digger O'Dell in it.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing he did was he came up with this concept called grocery night.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Kroger would go to a local grocery store

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and they would donate $10 worth of food,

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_00]: which $10 worth of food at that time could feed a family of four

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: for like a week.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a lot.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And so here's the thing though.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You could get a ticket to be entered in the drawing for free

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: from the grocery store,

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but in order to win you had to be present at the movie theater

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and so you had to buy a ticket to the movie.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So those were just a couple of the things that had him

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: adopt the moniker of America's daring young showman.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That is what he called himself after this.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: At a certain point he decides that he's learned enough

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: for Warner Brothers.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So he decides to go out on his own

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and becomes like a publicity gun for hire kind of guy.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So he would go on the road with different movies?

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that he was hired to do publicity for.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and then he would sort of figure out how to

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: advertise to each specific town that they were going to.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, he would come in, he would do all kinds of articles

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and newspapers, he would take advertising out,

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: he'd do radio spots, he would you know...

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Drum up interest.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: He was one of the first guys that started doing

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: direct billing too.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: What's direct billing?

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You would send advertisements to everybody's mailbox

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: directly so he used direct mail that way.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So he finds himself traveling with a film called

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Dust to Dust and this is a film that was

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: called A Birth of a Baby Film.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: He's working for these two guys named Cox and Underwood.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Cox and Underwood are part of a group of guys

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that are known as the 40 Thieves.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The 40 Thieves, and I'm just gonna...

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds like a group you want to get involved with.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well this is where he learns all the ropes

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: right here about being independent.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: There are a group of independent filmmakers

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and distributors that operated outside

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: of the motion picture industry haze code

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: that was in effect from 1930 to 1968.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Well you know we like that.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so they pedaled sensationalist content

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: often promising more than the films could provide.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: They were named the 40 Thieves by law enforcement

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and motion picture exhibitors.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So basically they would roll into a town

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: they'd play for one night and they'd be out

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: with all your money before the dawn breaks.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why they got called the 40 Thieves.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They promise you the world and deliver on none of it.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, this is his first experience with these guys.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He's traveling with this film called Dust to Dust

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: which is a birth of a baby film.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is really sensational stuff at the time.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a live birth shown on screen.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And the only way that you're able to do this

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is to pretend that it's educational.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I love people that figure out the loopholes.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The little guys that figure out the loopholes.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're also able to like upcharge

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: by selling sex education pamphlets in between.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the education part here

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's also a way to earn extra money for them.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They print up these cheap little pamphlets

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and sell them for a dollar a piece.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That is a lot for back then.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a movie called Dust to Dust.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually this movie High School Girl

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: but with the birth loop cut in afterwards.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So Kroger Bab is traveling with his film

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's like, man, this could just be done so much smoother.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The educational literature was just available

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: for you to buy on the way out.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like someone was actively selling it to you.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it wasn't like part of the movie.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, it wasn't a part of the process.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the loop wasn't part of the movie at all.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just completely separate.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They played it after the break where they sold the pamphlets

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they would just put the loop on.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So this seed of an idea,

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: this genesis of an idea is really concreted

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: when he goes to this town meeting

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: in this tiny Texas town called Burr Burnett, Texas.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: The reason that they were having this town meeting

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: was because all of their high school girls were getting pregnant

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: by the people stationed at the army base

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: on the outskirts of town.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a direct quote from Kroger Bab here about this.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: He says, Jesus, what a meeting.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: All those old bitties squabbling and roasting everybody

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: wanted the whole base run out of town.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Then the idea hit me.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It would make one hell of a movie.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's got the format

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's got the idea.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got the idea.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But now he needs one more thing.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: He needs to write a script.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: He needs a lot.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't just need a script.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: He needs a script.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: He needs money.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: He needs money.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: He needs a lot.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's all starting to come together now.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So he's traveling with Dust2Dust still in 1944

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and he goes into this first run.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's booked in a first run theater in Indianapolis.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: This kind of movie doesn't usually get into the big theaters

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: in a town.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: They often went into drive-ins

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: because drive-ins were usually on the outskirts of town

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and they could get around censorship rules

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: by being on the outskirts of town.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So this one is in the biggest theater in town

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and so the local film critic goes and sees the film.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Her name is Mildred Horne.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Her dad is the pastor of the town.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Mildred Horne.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So she is appalled by the content of the film.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: She sounds like she would be.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: She was not happy.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So she gets out of the film,

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: she berates the theater owner

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and she says,

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I am going to trash this film.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I am going to trash this film.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know what she would say.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So in her review the next day,

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: so the theater owner tells Kroger Bad this

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's like, hey, you know,

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: this lady is pretty powerful.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So Kroger's like, hey, I'll go talk to her.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll go talk to her.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I got this.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I got this.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And the theater owner is like,

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you should.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're just going to make it worse.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I really want this to play all week long.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know this chick.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: This lady will shut this down

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's like, I got it.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I got it.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So Kroger Bad goes to the newspaper.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: To Miss Horn.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_00]: To Miss Horn.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: He takes her out to dinner that night.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That same night?

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The review never runs the next day.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: The film plays all week long

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's supposed to

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: with no further problems.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And when he leaves,

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: he has his print in the car.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He has all his advertising gear in the car

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and he has Mildred Horn

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: in the car with him.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He takes her.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: She becomes his wife.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: She lives with him for the next 40 years.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Willingly?

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he had her chained anywhere.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That is one smooth talker.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He babbed her good.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: She got babbed.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: She got babbed.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, that is not where I thought

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: this story was going.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It is pretty good.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you didn't tell me about it.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how he met his wife?

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how he met his wife.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So Mildred Horn is a writer, remember?

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So now, Kroger Bab has the idea

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to produce this film

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and he has someone to write it.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Mildred Horn

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: writes mom and dad.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: No way, really?

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That is so cool.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: The pastor's daughter

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: writes the movie about the girl getting knocked up.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Bab has a master plan here.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to produce his very own film,

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but he's going to make it in Hollywood

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: with a legitimate director and cast.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And his version of all the films

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that played previous is going to be

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: higher quality than any of the other ones.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: That was his big idea.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So Mildred wrote the screenplay,

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: but she also wrote the pamphlets

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that they hand out during the breaks.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's in there the same.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: They just had different covers.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So Bab rounded up 20 investors for the film.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He put together $67,000 to make it.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he went to Hollywood.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: He hired William Baudin to direct.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a legit director.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: He was a really legit director at one point.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I think at this point in his career,

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: he was drunk and they called him

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: one shot Baudin because

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: he would never take more than one take on anything.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well you know Kroger Bab liked that.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: He did. He loved it as a producer. Heck yeah.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: They shot the film over six days

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: on the monogram lot too.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh monogram lot,

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: which is now the site of a

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Scientology media

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and production empire.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course it is.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But even better,

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: right outside of that

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: is Tiki T.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: This really old Tiki bar

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: in LA right on Sunset Boulevard.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Tiki T's the best.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in LA ever, go to Tiki T

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: on Sunset.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Has the best drinks.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And take a look at the Scientology center behind

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and that used to be Monogram Studios

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and order the Ooga Booga.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's no trailer

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but the film

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: essentially

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: is about a girl that gets knocked up.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Because her mom refuses

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to talk to her about sex.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, so she doesn't understand

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: the ways of the world.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: She gets knocked up

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and then

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: her boyfriend dies

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in an airplane crash

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the doctor

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: gets really mad at the mom

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: for not telling her daughter

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: about sex and so he

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: goes into the school and shows everybody

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01]: he teaches the kids about

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: sex education.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So he shows them a birth loop

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and a life's a Syrian section too.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Not a live one, a loop.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They wheeled the lead in

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the theater.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and then

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: because

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: boys need to also have sex education

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: they show the boys

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: a VD loop.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's the end of the movie.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So we watched this movie recently

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and I have to say

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I went into it thinking

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: this is going to be total trash.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Ugh.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: What is it over?

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was actually pretty good I have to say.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it wasn't a badly made film.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean go into it thinking it's going to be trash

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's actually not that bad

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: but really it wasn't because

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: like you said it had a story

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and the whole

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_01]: birth thing actually made sense.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it worked within the context of the movie

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: unlike the previous one.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So we haven't really gotten to the point

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: of him making the film yet so.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: No I mean you're the one that's telling the story

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you're the one that jumped ahead.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well because we were talking about her writing it.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Alright so now that he has the film done

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and he has ideas

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: to streamline the delivery

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: he makes

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Pun intended.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: creates this character Elliot Forbes

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: who is a

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: sex educator

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that will travel with the film

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: so he hires actor

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: to play this. So he's almost like the ringmaster.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes and so

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: when the film plays it stops

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Elliot Forbes then kind of gives a sermon

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: you can't live in ignorance and

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: pushes those pamphlets.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the quote is

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: no house is replete

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: without both of the pamphlets

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: so $2

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: they should be on everybody's

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: nightstands is what he says.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Which they're not wrong. No I mean

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: sex education is the only way they didn't teach in schools back then

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: at one point there were

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: over 40 people playing Elliot Forbes

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: because no matter where the movie was playing

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: there wasn't Elliot Forbes with it so

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: this guy was really busy. He was all over the place.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So in all neighborhoods. Yes in all neighborhoods

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: so

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but Kroger Bab found out

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that Elliot Forbes would sell

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: less pamphlets to

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: the black audience

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: African American audiences

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: didn't like a white

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Elliot Forbes telling them about

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: sex education. So

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: he had a great idea. He hired

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Jesse Owens to travel with

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: mom and dad

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: to specifically black neighborhoods

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and he was their

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Elliot Forbes they called him Jesse Owens

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: because he's right there's no

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: needs. Yeah there's no need to change

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: his name. The name is the

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: cache anyway. But they found

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that Jesse Owens could

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sell pamphlets like crazy because everybody

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: just wanted to get close to Jesse Owens. Right

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: right so

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah so Kroger Bab was agile

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and would pivot when things

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: weren't working. Yeah. He was

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: a smart guy and he

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: always liked to streamline in a maximize

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: profit so

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that I

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: thought was really interesting. Yeah that's really interesting.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So and then another thing that he did

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: was he came up with the idea

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: of segregating screenings.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a teenage girl

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and female only screening

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: so he would separate the ladies

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_00]: from the dudes. Yeah ladies

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and dudes. Yes

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: ladies and dudes. There were

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: lady only screenings at 2 and

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: 7 and a dude

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: only screening at 9. Oh

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: late at night. The idea

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: behind that was that

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because of

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: some of the material in the

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: film women

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: felt more comfortable

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: being only amongst themselves.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Right you wouldn't look around and have some creepy dudes

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: staring at you make an eye contact. Correct

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but it also

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: made the guys

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: more excited by the fact that

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: like what they were going to see was something

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: super lascivious because

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_00]: they couldn't be trusted to be

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: in the same room as women

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_00]: while it's being shown on the screen

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So mom and dad opened in

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: January of 1945

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: in a Warner Brothers theater of course because

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: they worked for Warner Brothers. Yep, sure use those connections

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: in Oklahoma City.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The film earned

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in its entire run and ran all the way into

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: the 70s. They estimate between

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: 80 and 100 million dollars

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: is what it made

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: over the course of its life. What's that

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: adjusted for inflation? That is adjusted

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: for inflation. 80 to 100

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_00]: million dollars. Okay well for a little

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: independent film that cost 67,000 dollars.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: 67,000 dollars to make

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: 80 to 100 million

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: is really good.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It was dubbed into dozens of languages

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: it played in

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_00]: 47 states and

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: 72 countries

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It was the third highest

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: grossing film of the 1940s

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: according to Time Magazine

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and I

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: saw another fact that Time Magazine said on this one

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And that it was

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: one out of every 10 people

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: had seen the film. Yep.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Was that in the world

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: or was that just

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: domestically? In the world. Time Magazine claimed

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that one out of every ten. That's crazy.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So four years after it came out. Yeah

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Crazy. Okay so

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Krogerbab is on an all time

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: high. He's made

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: this movie

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Where does he go from there? How does he

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: beat that? How does he top that?

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Well the answer is

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll have to tune

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: into our next episode to find out

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: That is the answer.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: What a tease. That is true

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We have

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: babbled to access

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for the day. Babbed it up

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We have so

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to cut it here

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do a part two to continue

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Krogerbab's right up here

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Is he going to go here?

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Or is he going to go here?

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Come back

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I think people know. Come back

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they know. No

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to lose sleep. I'm sorry

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Until the next one comes out guys

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry. Blame Krogerbab. I don't know

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Alright so we cheers

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Cheers

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Cheers to Krogerbab

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And cheers to you

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: The person that stayed for the whole

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: episode. Thank you

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: We appreciate you. Until next time

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining us here

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: On Perf Damage

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So Mildred didn't just write the script

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_00]: She also wrote the pamphlets that they hand out

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Just finish it

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I knew I shouldn't put that there

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well it's popcorn. Of course you're going to eat it

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Hurry up so I can eat this popcorn

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Alright so