Natalie Kalmus: The Woman Who Nearly Ruined Technicolor

[00:00:00] Welcome back to Perf Damage. This is the show where we dive into the hidden histories of Hollywood.

[00:00:06] I'm Adam and this is Astha.

[00:00:09] And I'm Charlotte and I'm with Ripley.

[00:00:11] And today you're going to talk about Technicolor.

[00:00:15] Again.

[00:00:18] When aren't we talking about Technicolor?

[00:00:19] We've already talked about the fact that we're talking about the colors.

[00:00:23] The colorful story of how we're coupled behind the Herbert Kalmus and his wife Natalie

[00:00:35] Kalmus. She would help elevate color in films, art forms.

[00:00:39] Yeah. And she defined what Technicolor became known for.

[00:00:44] But Herbert Kalmus is a 50 years.

[00:00:52] That's what we're talking about today.

[00:00:54] We are going to dive into the stormy world of one of Hollywood's most controversial powercubles.

[00:01:01] Great. Grab your line, grab your pop, come back to Perf Damage.

[00:01:07] A woman who played with a colorful, technicolor, fine.

[00:01:14] State.

[00:01:22] Oh, no, not again.

[00:01:25] Hey, movie lovers. I'm Adam.

[00:01:28] And welcome to Perf Damage.

[00:01:31] Where the VFS has been in white team to work in the film industry.

[00:01:35] I oversee film restoration at the oldest in Hollywood.

[00:01:39] I bring the inside track, film development in for the club for the detail.

[00:01:46] He's passed in.

[00:01:48] So join us for cinematic journey like no other.

[00:01:51] From classic gym to examining art double feature.

[00:01:55] This.

[00:01:59] Popcorn pop.

[00:02:01] Fine at the ready.

[00:02:03] Let's press play.

[00:02:13] Charlotte, let's start with some backstory.

[00:02:15] Let's do a little contextualization of both Herbert and Natalie.

[00:02:20] Right.

[00:02:21] Herbert was born in Massachusetts in 1880.

[00:02:23] He had a very sad upbringing because his mother died very early when he was eight years old.

[00:02:29] And then his father remarried and then his father died.

[00:02:34] When he was 11 years old.

[00:02:36] And so he was left with his stepmother who couldn't take care of him.

[00:02:39] So they moved in with her parents because there was a bunch of kids in that.

[00:02:43] Well, and they wanted to bring him up around children.

[00:02:46] But he was always kind of treated as like a second class that is like a Cinderella.

[00:02:51] Very much so when the kids went off to college, they said, Oh, no.

[00:02:56] You can't go to college.

[00:02:57] We don't have the money to pay for you at 16.

[00:03:00] When he left the house, he moved to Boston and decided that he was just going to work and save money so that he could pay his own way.

[00:03:08] He applied to Yale and Harvard.

[00:03:11] But both of them required a high school diploma, which he did not have left on court.

[00:03:16] But on court.

[00:03:17] Yeah.

[00:03:17] Well, I guess not back in the 1800.

[00:03:21] So he ended up applying for MIT instead because they didn't require a high school diploma.

[00:03:27] And while he was at MIT, he met Natalie Thomas for fun.

[00:03:31] Great.

[00:03:31] So now doesn't have.

[00:03:34] So this is her story as to play her.

[00:03:37] Her magazine.

[00:03:39] Natalie was born Natalie Dunn in Norfolk, Virginia.

[00:03:42] When Natalie was H.C. lost a parent, her father died in ice skating act of all things.

[00:03:48] And after that her mother moved her and her siblings to Boston.

[00:03:52] And it wasn't long before Natalie's good look started to get into Boston.

[00:03:57] Started getting jobs as catalog.

[00:04:02] And as an avid lover of the arch, Ben, time in Boston, study art.

[00:04:06] And in fact, she started getting at art in Boston.

[00:04:10] And that's what she was doing when Herbert found out.

[00:04:13] So Herbert and Natalie got married.

[00:04:16] And Natalie said that Herbert had to dig about.

[00:04:21] Eventually Herbert went and got a study grant in the direct with the toxic.

[00:04:29] And then while they were there, Natalie took.

[00:04:32] He took some art classes.

[00:04:34] Yeah, enrolled into school and took some art classes.

[00:04:36] Well, Herbert does a couple things.

[00:04:41] They ended up having a senior thing.

[00:04:42] They start technical.

[00:04:44] For jumping ahead here, if you want to hear more of those details,

[00:04:46] you can head over to the other technical.

[00:04:49] Right.

[00:04:49] The competing episode.

[00:04:57] So, they started technical and Natalie started helping out with that.

[00:05:04] She as they were developing their career.

[00:05:06] Color process was in the set look good.

[00:05:10] Different colors there.

[00:05:12] Sitting in front of the camera.

[00:05:14] Things from skin tone, hair color.

[00:05:16] So she in a way became the first dearly because they were collaborating the camera on her.

[00:05:22] And they shoot their first film look bulky.

[00:05:25] They worked on the toldy.

[00:05:27] Toldy.

[00:05:28] And while they were working.

[00:05:31] Herbert and that.

[00:05:35] For.

[00:05:36] Yes, it seems like all of that work and all of that research had taken a toll on their marriage.

[00:05:46] That's like something I would say.

[00:05:48] I think it is something you said in the last one.

[00:05:51] I just re-used your joke.

[00:05:53] I pretty sure that I.

[00:05:55] And I laughed at it, which is pretty lame.

[00:06:00] All right.

[00:06:01] They get to divorce and nobody knows.

[00:06:03] They were still working together.

[00:06:05] So she was a Natalie Kalmas.

[00:06:07] Everybody just assumed they were still married.

[00:06:09] The company was very small.

[00:06:10] It was.

[00:06:10] So it seems like they ended their marriage well.

[00:06:13] Right.

[00:06:14] Natalie continued work at Technicolor.

[00:06:17] Now she's going to have a official title yet.

[00:06:20] Got to.

[00:06:21] 1926.

[00:06:22] They do the black.

[00:06:23] Hi, Rick.

[00:06:23] Yep.

[00:06:24] Very gigantic success even though it's a financial.

[00:06:27] Lamedy for them.

[00:06:29] How do we talk about that?

[00:06:31] You know, not just that.

[00:06:33] The big problem, the Technicolor was having.

[00:06:36] I'm that.

[00:06:37] We're.

[00:06:38] But they weren't.

[00:06:40] They were the best way that they could really throw off the Kelly.

[00:06:43] When it was used on the black pirate, Dr. Fairbanks was really more interested in landscapes,

[00:06:49] other things not not the skin tone.

[00:06:51] Not the skin tone because that's not what you're trying to do.

[00:06:53] And there was no way for Technicolor to really advertise their product when other people were using it and correctly.

[00:07:00] So they couldn't say hey, you want to see what it can do.

[00:07:03] Look at the black pirate.

[00:07:04] That wasn't all that it could.

[00:07:06] Well, they had a colored advisory board, but it wasn't mandatory at this point.

[00:07:09] They made suggestions.

[00:07:11] They said, hey, this color would be good and this color bad.

[00:07:14] This fabric would look good and this fabric.

[00:07:17] Bad and don't shoot it like it's a black and white films.

[00:07:20] Like it's a color films we got to kind of think about it before we just throw things on the screen.

[00:07:25] I have like a whole thing in front.

[00:07:26] Pretty much.

[00:07:28] I was just going to keep let you keep going.

[00:07:30] I would keep going for sure.

[00:07:33] But we don't have the time.

[00:07:36] And.

[00:07:36] Do.

[00:07:38] Color decide.

[00:07:39] Hey, let's shoot our own little sports.

[00:07:41] They can play before I'm in the blazing at theater.

[00:07:43] We can say color by Technicolor and that's what they did.

[00:07:47] Was called color craft.

[00:07:49] They did a series of shorts that they looked at as advertising because they were the ideal.

[00:07:54] Their two color processing.

[00:07:56] Now we got interested in the color graph pictures and I think Herbert was looking to get for an actual thing to do.

[00:08:02] Actually have a quote here.

[00:08:03] Let me read this.

[00:08:04] This is from the dawn of Technicolor kind of adds a little bit of insight into how she came into that right.

[00:08:10] This is a quote from Edward Easterbrook who used to be one of the camera.

[00:08:15] Technic.

[00:08:15] He said, one day Dr. Calma said to me, I think we ought to take some of these duties away from you and give them to Mrs. Calmus.

[00:08:24] So she can earn a little cigarette money.

[00:08:27] And so that's how Natalie Calmus became the premier color consultant for Technicolor.

[00:08:33] Well, yeah.

[00:08:34] Yeah. Which would define her whole.

[00:08:37] Well, and it was really good for Technicolor too.

[00:08:39] It was.

[00:08:41] Then a wine break.

[00:08:42] Wine break.

[00:08:56] So Natalie cut her teeth in the color craft shorts. She got her credits on screen.

[00:09:03] Pfizer color, collector.

[00:09:05] And newspaper started to think.

[00:09:07] Yeah, I mean there was an oddity. There's this female executive.

[00:09:09] It's on set over a Technicolor charge of the coloring.

[00:09:14] Let's fast forward to free strip then.

[00:09:17] Yeah, in 1932, Technicolor and Phil, the three strip, Technicolor process.

[00:09:22] But this time instead of having a color advice that was just dusted Natalie Calmus was mandatory.

[00:09:32] On the set of Technicolor just called process.

[00:09:37] Film, the me.

[00:09:38] Friends, how they were involved in production.

[00:09:41] In production as well with the color.

[00:09:44] Yeah, they're every step of the way and production production and post production.

[00:09:48] They were there.

[00:09:49] They were there.

[00:09:49] Yeah, this is where Natalie both excelled and got into trouble.

[00:09:54] Right.

[00:09:55] Now that you've managed.

[00:09:56] Right.

[00:09:57] In 19.

[00:09:59] Photo playback.

[00:09:59] That an article on Natalie and it was called all.

[00:10:04] Colors on.

[00:10:05] Says you will find a simplified color chart made by Natalie Calmus.

[00:10:10] These pages.

[00:10:11] You can refer to your color.

[00:10:14] You can play a.

[00:10:15] Eating by analyzing color like and dislikes.

[00:10:19] So, and your friend.

[00:10:21] Why does certain colors blew you up?

[00:10:23] Others take you down.

[00:10:24] Read on.

[00:10:25] You'll find out.

[00:10:26] Technicolor as a topic as a company coming for popular.

[00:10:31] Great.

[00:10:32] Right.

[00:10:33] They're running articles on them.

[00:10:34] They had this unique and good-looking woman running the color advisory board.

[00:10:39] Bonus was the wife of the guy that owned the company.

[00:10:43] That's the story.

[00:10:44] The great story.

[00:10:44] It's a great.

[00:10:46] They started to go with this concept.

[00:10:48] Herbert was the technique and she was the color.

[00:10:52] Technicolor.

[00:10:53] And so they got it coverage all over them.

[00:10:55] They always refer to her as small build, slight.

[00:10:59] Feminate.

[00:11:00] Yeah.

[00:11:00] Anytime anybody cover her.

[00:11:02] Her gender was a.

[00:11:04] Feel about it.

[00:11:05] Was the deal.

[00:11:05] You kind of was.

[00:11:07] Unfortunately.

[00:11:09] You know all of these things later.

[00:11:10] Stand out to us.

[00:11:11] Yeah.

[00:11:12] At the time it probably wasn't that big.

[00:11:14] Yeah.

[00:11:15] And it probably meant a lot.

[00:11:17] So when I share a couple of.

[00:11:19] Headlines.

[00:11:19] Some of the articles that found on Natalie.

[00:11:22] One said expert in color photography.

[00:11:25] Woman is paid 65,000 here.

[00:11:27] Another assured the reader that while she was.

[00:11:31] Feminine.

[00:11:32] She was for the less this the.

[00:11:35] Dictator of color technique in Hollywood.

[00:11:38] What's funny is that line would go on.

[00:11:41] Hurry.

[00:11:42] Act for it.

[00:11:43] Some later.

[00:11:46] Okay.

[00:11:46] So my favorite headline is.

[00:11:48] When colors go blue.

[00:11:50] They ask a woman to fix them.

[00:11:54] In 1935 Natalie in another publication published this article called color.

[00:12:01] Which was sort of her manifesto of how to properly.

[00:12:05] Color in motion picture.

[00:12:07] There are moments here where she's not just taking.

[00:12:10] Fine painting, but she's also taking all of these things that we consider the art and she's making film on that.

[00:12:18] I think it should read.

[00:12:20] Read the past.

[00:12:21] I'm sure.

[00:12:22] People really understand.

[00:12:24] Asked to use of a single color.

[00:12:26] Each you has particular.

[00:12:30] For example, red recalls to mine.

[00:12:34] A different shade of red just various faces.

[00:12:39] Life such as love, happy wine.

[00:12:43] Oh yeah.

[00:12:44] Oh yeah.

[00:12:44] She goes through every color and says that.

[00:12:47] Let's talk about some of the films she worked on.

[00:12:49] Yeah.

[00:12:50] Let's talk about Noah.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:53] Snow White 1937.

[00:12:55] 30 seven.

[00:12:56] Yes.

[00:12:56] I wasn't reading it just now.

[00:13:00] The one time I didn't read it, I want credit for it.

[00:13:03] I actually memorized it.

[00:13:04] We're going to go back.

[00:13:05] We're going to analyze your eye line.

[00:13:07] So let's talk about some of the films she worked on.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:12] I don't.

[00:13:13] This is the thing.

[00:13:14] Most people don't know that I'm very bad.

[00:13:18] Because I are dead originally.

[00:13:20] Some of the worst states ever.

[00:13:23] Oh, that's not what you talk about.

[00:13:25] That's not the kind of dates I'm talking about.

[00:13:28] No, I'm bad with dates.

[00:13:30] I'm bad with number.

[00:13:31] Back to Snow White.

[00:13:32] Snow White 1937.

[00:13:34] So Natalie works on Snow White and she had buy.

[00:13:38] Well, she again.

[00:13:39] Right colors for a.

[00:13:42] Firelink though, because he thought this audience point higher that it would be a physical manifestation.

[00:13:48] Your eyes would hurt if you looked at color that.

[00:13:51] Right. And this wasn't just for animated films because she did the same exact thing in 1938 on venture Robin.

[00:13:58] A movie that is known for its vibrant colors, right?

[00:14:01] By the late 1930s directors technicians were really familiar with the technology and they were really starting to play around with the possibly of it.

[00:14:11] But I'm going to spell stuck in her pride, but you have this.

[00:14:14] And you really can't blame her because the reason why it took so long for tech and color to build.

[00:14:19] Hold. Other than the fact that they didn't have the three strip worked out for a while was because people weren't even.

[00:14:25] It's best to be.

[00:14:26] To offer it to you.

[00:14:27] However, Natalie was really stuck in her way.

[00:14:31] She insisted to microcure director of the adventure from the head that the colors he tone down.

[00:14:36] Less the film looked like a comic book.

[00:14:39] Do which her teeth.

[00:14:42] But Natalie, that's what we're going for.

[00:14:47] And what's interesting is that the film was celebrated for its bright use of color.

[00:14:52] Well, it's become one of those touchstone pictures that you think technically you think the adventures Robin especially for that period of technical.

[00:15:01] Unfortunately, issues like this with director, budding head.

[00:15:06] Natalie, during the coming period.

[00:15:10] Natalie was in a very precarious.

[00:15:13] She was a female and a male world.

[00:15:16] Yes, in a technical position telling people what they can and can.

[00:15:21] Did really know what her place was.

[00:15:23] Well, that's the other end of it.

[00:15:25] She tended to overstep.

[00:15:26] Yeah, she was there to advise that was her position is by.

[00:15:31] Yes, that's the word advice.

[00:15:32] You know, on one hand, I feel for her, but on the other hand, she wasn't helping herself in anywhere.

[00:15:37] So the color chart that Natalie and the other, which started out as just weren't really seen as suggestion by Natalie they were directed.

[00:15:53] When a director or a reflection.

[00:15:56] Follow the directive.

[00:15:58] Yeah, and this is where the problem stemmed from not all of her collaborators appreciated being dictated.

[00:16:10] One of her.

[00:16:12] It was distinguished cinematographer James Wong-How.

[00:16:17] James Wong-How was working on the adventures of Tom Sawyer 1938 and when he employed less than the stipulated levels of lighting according to Natalie, but on the cave sequences she decided to bar him from working with technicalor for 10 years after work.

[00:16:37] And this is crazy because James Wong-How won two Academy Awards.

[00:16:41] Two Academy Awards.

[00:16:42] He was nominated for 10.

[00:16:44] An incredible cinematographer.

[00:16:46] Yeah, apparently Disney hired him on the slide to help set the look for the live action sequences in Fantasia 1940.

[00:16:55] He is not credited for that.

[00:16:57] So Natalie Kalmas was getting quite the reputation around town.

[00:17:02] She was budding heads with directors, cinematographers, producers, but it wasn't until gone with the win when she met David O'Sellsnik.

[00:17:12] She really met her.

[00:17:15] And this is a guy that life magazine called the most dictatorial in a regular executive in an industry where irregularity is commonplace.

[00:17:25] Selznik Kalmas had met that.

[00:17:28] Yes, I see, yes she did.

[00:17:30] Natalie was a fan of the mere naturalistic colors as we saw with him.

[00:17:36] Selznik wanted the brightness of gone with the win for Flex Garlito Harris changing fortune.

[00:17:41] So they went head to head and if Natalie didn't like how that was furnished, she would just go onto the set and change it herself.

[00:17:50] To out-acting, Selznik's mission or anybody's permission.

[00:17:54] Yeah, that's called overstepping people.

[00:17:57] Selznik was really known for all of his cabin.

[00:18:02] And we have a couple here that really express how he felt about the text.

[00:18:06] Yeah, he was popped up on Benznik.

[00:18:08] That's why he was up at him.

[00:18:10] Dictatingly.

[00:18:11] Dictatingly.

[00:18:12] In one of them he says, I cannot conceive how we could have been talked to the throwing away opportunities for magnificent color value based on the squads and prophecies of doom from the technical experts.

[00:18:26] I said that Selznik coined the term art director for his production designer, William M in to duck him again Natalie Kalman.

[00:18:36] Because she colored director but Natalie wasn't by that.

[00:18:41] So what she do?

[00:18:42] The conflict between the two of them culminated over all the re-well.

[00:18:47] Natalie Kalman was around.

[00:18:49] Honestly, she was apparently in everybody's hair much more than anybody wanted her to be.

[00:18:55] But she was so protective of the process.

[00:18:58] Imagine defying those tycoons of the third floor and saying you had to see the film till I corrected it.

[00:19:06] I mean, that took some guts.

[00:19:09] The growing tension between Natalie and studio filmmakers boiled over on Gone with a win.

[00:19:15] Her undoing was the color of the walls in this brief scene.

[00:19:20] She felt the actors costumes wouldn't stand out and that's proved her wrong but Natalie kept fighting.

[00:19:28] Selznik contacted Dr. Kalman who had his ex-wife removed the technicalist band in England.

[00:19:36] He wanted to get away, so he sent her over here and she became a colleague of salt and over here.

[00:19:42] And she was renowned for these ghastly hatch.

[00:19:46] They really were absolutely ghastly.

[00:19:49] Every color of the spectrum.

[00:19:51] She thought she was promoting Kalman.

[00:19:54] I thought we also thought she was doing Kalman a lot of harm.

[00:19:57] So she went over there to help out with the technical film.

[00:20:00] So she became England.

[00:20:02] Yeah, he was like, you guys are in the mirror.

[00:20:05] You guys handle her and guess what?

[00:20:07] She was England's problem.

[00:20:09] She fought with everybody over there too.

[00:20:11] She probably fought with a flight attendant.

[00:20:15] You know she did.

[00:20:16] And this wasn't just Selznik who had been flashing when she clashed with Sussard D'Immil,

[00:20:21] who said,

[00:20:23] Too bad the good lord up in heaven didn't have a technical or consult when he made apples and oranges.

[00:20:29] Play right and screenwriter Arthur Lvren, but it heads with Natalie.

[00:20:33] This guy wrote West Side Story.

[00:20:35] Gips.

[00:20:36] Oh.

[00:20:37] He wrote rope for Hitchcock and his memoirs.

[00:20:41] He said, Natalie Kalman's light half-filled off camera.

[00:20:46] No matter where she went, her reputation proceeds her.

[00:20:50] The general sentiment towards Natalie Kalman was probably best summed up by Alan and an interview in

[00:20:56] A.

[00:20:56] Asked about Natalie Kalman.

[00:20:59] So I spoke.

[00:21:01] Natalie Kalman was a bitch.

[00:21:11] But 1980, this is years after the fact.

[00:21:14] Yeah, he still held a grudge.

[00:21:16] So in England she began flashing Powell and pressburg.

[00:21:19] And Michael Powell nicknamed her The Newson.

[00:21:25] While we're here on the film Black Narcissus, Jack Curtis is in a photographer had done

[00:21:29] her job and she needed it.

[00:21:31] She tried to scrap the shots.

[00:21:32] And she tried to scrap the shots.

[00:21:33] This is like this is garbage.

[00:21:34] This is the same we shot when I shot with a number two full filter.

[00:21:40] It's so unnoticable, you know.

[00:21:42] But take the color out raised because that was forbidden at that time.

[00:21:45] And the next morning we got a note from technical to a message on the phone to say that

[00:21:49] The previous day's work was completely ruined.

[00:21:53] And I felt sick.

[00:21:54] So, it was too much to see the rushes.

[00:21:57] They'd brought over specialty to show us.

[00:21:59] And the moment I saw it on the screen, I knew it was good.

[00:22:01] Michael said wonderful, Jack.

[00:22:03] It's just what I wanted.

[00:22:05] He turned to technicalators about time you learned something about art and

[00:22:09] and movies and so on. He was gave my lecture.

[00:22:12] There was a certain tyranny about the color consultants.

[00:22:17] And Mrs Kalman, who was the wife of Dr Kalman,

[00:22:21] who had brought the process out.

[00:22:23] She was in charge of making sure that all the sets

[00:22:28] the colors were right.

[00:22:30] Mrs Kalman was quite a dictator.

[00:22:32] She used to come on the set with the most incredible clothes

[00:22:36] of the brightest colors, really technical colors.

[00:22:40] And say to the artist,

[00:22:41] I know this wall is too blue or too green.

[00:22:44] I must have it little less than that.

[00:22:47] And she redesigned everything.

[00:22:48] That's why I don't think she ever came on the set with Michael Powell.

[00:22:52] I think he would have turned her out.

[00:22:54] And also Alfred Junga, the art director,

[00:22:59] would never agree to his colors being changed.

[00:23:03] So Natalie didn't stay in exile forever.

[00:23:06] She found her way home.

[00:23:07] Eventually found her way back to this continent.

[00:23:12] So she was back in Hollywood to annoy everybody here again.

[00:23:16] In 1944, she was working on the set of Meet Me in St. Louis with director

[00:23:20] Vincentman.

[00:23:21] And he said, my juxtaposition of color had been highly praised

[00:23:25] on the stage, but I couldn't do anything right and miss his calmness.

[00:23:31] On the set, they were in the middle of a tape.

[00:23:34] And Natalie so upset by what she was seeing.

[00:23:39] Walks into the shot and she screamed,

[00:23:43] you can have one sister in green and another red.

[00:23:48] Meet Me in St. Louis is a Christmas story.

[00:23:52] By the time they're working on Meet Me in St. Louis in 44,

[00:23:56] free strip technical, there's been around for over a decade.

[00:23:58] Right. All these directors have used it.

[00:24:00] It's not something new anymore.

[00:24:02] And so I feel at this point that the idea of the advisory board

[00:24:07] and it's important to fill making was Wayne.

[00:24:12] They didn't need someone to microman any more.

[00:24:15] I think it's time for a library.

[00:24:27] In 1944, Natalie tried to branch out a client in department called Harrison

[00:24:33] Doubt Practicolor and they said they wanted a collection of clothing based on

[00:24:40] technical and they talked to Natalie and Natalie said,

[00:24:44] well, you can't use the technicaler.

[00:24:48] But you can use things.

[00:24:53] So they released a collection of clothing called the Natalie.

[00:24:57] A color collection.

[00:24:58] So in 1944, Herbert and Natalie's relationship

[00:25:01] professionally, personally, especially professionally, was all in

[00:25:05] Campbell's and Herbert was really ready to move on with this life.

[00:25:09] He had been dating other women for about a year's hood, Mary,

[00:25:13] everybody.

[00:25:14] A fairs.

[00:25:16] Natalie said, okay, I'll move on that I'm entitled to pass

[00:25:19] for the asset.

[00:25:20] Herbert, that will not be for not Mary.

[00:25:23] So that's a no.

[00:25:24] So her first tactic was to say that they secretly got

[00:25:28] remarried in 1923 one year after the divorce was finalized.

[00:25:33] But could not produce any proof.

[00:25:35] Good finding proof of that because what wasn't true.

[00:25:38] And then her second tactic was that they were

[00:25:42] coming along, Mary.

[00:25:43] Yeah, because they had shared residents.

[00:25:45] So her tactics weren't working and Herbert could see that

[00:25:50] she's not going to.

[00:25:52] So he decided to go and settle with her.

[00:25:54] She's not going to chill.

[00:25:56] She crazy.

[00:25:57] Maybe he said that maybe he didn't.

[00:25:59] I don't know.

[00:26:00] But he decided to settle out of court with her.

[00:26:04] Right.

[00:26:05] This is where you tell us the details.

[00:26:06] We're the detailed Herbert's side.

[00:26:07] And we're going to settle out of court.

[00:26:09] He gives her $36,000.

[00:26:10] He gives her $75,000 a year in Alamo.

[00:26:13] He paid all her court fees and he gave her an additional $8,000 lump sum.

[00:26:19] And all she had to do was agree that they were not married and also agreed

[00:26:25] to not take him back into court.

[00:26:28] So in the story?

[00:26:29] No.

[00:26:30] No.

[00:26:31] No.

[00:26:32] This is not the end of the story.

[00:26:33] So guess what she does three years later.

[00:26:35] In 1948, he takes him back to court.

[00:26:39] That nullifies that agreement.

[00:26:42] Yep.

[00:26:42] She decides that she's going to play the distraught wife that had been wronged over

[00:26:46] all of the years so that she could try it publicly.

[00:26:50] So she took the media to court.

[00:26:52] She took the media to court.

[00:26:55] She was going to decide this in the public.

[00:26:57] Her complaint.

[00:26:59] We're getting more dramatic by the day and the media.

[00:27:02] That's 8.

[00:27:04] There were crazy headlines that Natalie was getting in the paper.

[00:27:09] I think one of my favorites is not my wife.

[00:27:11] How much does an Alamo need caught?

[00:27:14] She started claiming that he was guilty of cruelty and

[00:27:19] infidelity and that she deserved half of his $3 million estate and half of the company.

[00:27:26] And the whole time, fashion, public.

[00:27:29] Herbert's student went on this fund and he's been

[00:27:32] dead.

[00:27:32] So she said that sex wife had repeatedly threatened through

[00:27:35] and he's busy.

[00:27:37] That, on that I quote, she called me a sinker, a liar and a crook.

[00:27:41] In sulto the women I had a perfect right to entertain.

[00:27:44] He continually threatened her term.

[00:27:47] Said she was chute in a dark alley.

[00:27:50] She was chute.

[00:27:50] She would definitely.

[00:27:52] She kept doing a pill after her pill and she would pull these dramatic

[00:27:57] for it and there's court documents.

[00:28:01] Won't any court dead give me justice?

[00:28:06] She did this for years.

[00:28:08] For years, she took him to court and acted like this.

[00:28:12] For attorney in fact said to the judge that she couldn't live on

[00:28:16] $47,000 here and that she was having to pull jewelry

[00:28:21] survive.

[00:28:22] Here's the thing.

[00:28:23] $47,000 is over $6,000 a day.

[00:28:30] And she couldn't live on that.

[00:28:31] What judge is that?

[00:28:36] Not here, not in Boston.

[00:28:40] No where.

[00:28:41] No where in the world does it cost 600,000.

[00:28:45] That too.

[00:28:46] So at the same time, he devised a plan where that okay.

[00:28:51] I'm not going to get a half of the technicaler.

[00:28:52] So I'm going to be the four runner on color.

[00:28:56] Helavins.

[00:28:58] There's an article that says Natalie Kalmas misses technicaler of the movie.

[00:29:02] Has gone into competition with her ex husband and erased the Who can bring

[00:29:06] color television first?

[00:29:08] I think I'll be first.

[00:29:10] Victor and saying of Herbert Kalmas, he'll be furious when he finds out what

[00:29:15] I'm doing.

[00:29:15] These are beautifully designed.

[00:29:17] They are the very mid-century modern in 1949 for Kalmas got married

[00:29:23] and she's still getting sued by now.

[00:29:26] When things wouldn't go away in California, she tried to get it.

[00:29:30] She then filed a claim in Boston against the California court saying that she wasn't able

[00:29:37] to get any sort of justice in California because of where it was.

[00:29:41] Graphically, and that nobody there see her side.

[00:29:44] So she actually kind of sued the court.

[00:29:46] She claimed she was so sick that she couldn't even show up.

[00:29:49] She got a doctor to sign off on it.

[00:29:51] The judge at this point had had it with it.

[00:29:53] He was like, oh yeah right.

[00:29:55] So they hired a bunch of private eyes to follow her around.

[00:29:59] To see if she was really sick.

[00:30:01] If like these claims were true or not.

[00:30:03] This is from the court document.

[00:30:04] There was an affidavit that said that she walking riskably,

[00:30:08] vigorously, firmly and rapidly.

[00:30:11] Another plaintiff said that she was seen writing an automobile,

[00:30:14] shopping in various stores and carrying various parts.

[00:30:17] And then in another affidavit it says,

[00:30:20] he attended the horse races in Boston while she was at the races.

[00:30:24] She walked fast and shoulder her way through a very large crowd without any trouble.

[00:30:31] Additionally, she wasn't just doing her account.

[00:30:36] Hospital for medical health practice.

[00:30:38] She sued them for $56,000.

[00:30:41] Well, I guess what?

[00:30:42] Turns out he didn't pay her bills.

[00:30:45] I wouldn't have paid him either.

[00:30:46] But I felt like you got a malpractice thing.

[00:30:49] But she ended up settling for only $3,000 and the forgiveness of her bills.

[00:30:55] Yeah.

[00:30:56] And we're laughing.

[00:30:57] But it's just so many people.

[00:30:58] Because there's another one.

[00:31:00] She tripped on a train car.

[00:31:03] The porter.

[00:31:05] Tristan.

[00:31:05] She took out his leg.

[00:31:06] And tripped her.

[00:31:07] And she fell in to the side of the train.

[00:31:10] In to the right arm.

[00:31:11] She sued them for $25,000.

[00:31:13] And she ended up taking home $15,000 for this.

[00:31:18] In 1954, so she originally took Herbert to court in 1948.

[00:31:23] She wrote a nasty letter to judge that was over-case.

[00:31:28] And so the judge cited her for contempt of court.

[00:31:33] And sentenced the 73 year old Natalie to five days in county bail.

[00:31:38] And he said, you can get either justice, no sympathy in these courts.

[00:31:42] I'd like to go to jail so I can publicize the injustice that has been done to me.

[00:31:48] You had justice.

[00:31:50] You won't believe me.

[00:31:52] You won't believe your own attorneys.

[00:31:54] And you won't believe the district court of appeals.

[00:31:57] So I will have to take heroic measures.

[00:32:00] And so we threw her in jail.

[00:32:03] She pulled all kinds of crazy stuff, right?

[00:32:06] And ultimately, you know how this ended?

[00:32:08] Herbert Kalmas ended up settling out of justice to get her out of jail.

[00:32:12] Sadly, after all of this wrapped up, this really ruined public.

[00:32:18] I mean, there's really no contact.

[00:32:20] Natalie never worked again.

[00:32:24] Tired.

[00:32:25] He burned her reputation in.

[00:32:28] Yeah.

[00:32:28] So no one was willing to put their neck out for her.

[00:32:31] That's right.

[00:32:32] Stories of her go cold in the late 2004, they're a quarter-red,

[00:32:38] birthday cello.

[00:32:41] And they said that it was a set of fairs that no one on hand was there to share her birthday,

[00:32:47] except for the court's sympathetic, then how much reportedly went away.

[00:32:54] He gave it to me.

[00:32:55] The variety reporters said there were no card, no message, no calls from me friend, one time as those.

[00:33:05] Oh, let's add.

[00:33:06] Yeah, this is sad.

[00:33:07] And this wasn't written as an exploitative.

[00:33:09] It was, I'm writing this in variety because I'm hoping that someone who's this will know where to find her where she is possible.

[00:33:17] Right.

[00:33:18] And that's some of those friends we've reached out.

[00:33:20] And whether they did or not, I don't know there were never a small story.

[00:33:24] There was no small story.

[00:33:24] Exactly.

[00:33:25] She died on.

[00:33:33] So in 1990, pretty accurate.

[00:33:36] Herbert died.

[00:33:38] Elinore King, widow, had memoirs that she could read.

[00:33:45] Public.

[00:33:46] However.

[00:33:47] There was no mention of Natalie at all and anything he had written during his life.

[00:33:52] He had excluded her completely from the story, which is very telling about how painful it was to him.

[00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:03] So what does she do?

[00:34:04] She actually starts looking into Natalie Kellenman and kind of fill in those spots that aren't there.

[00:34:09] Yeah, and she writes a thing in the book about Natalie and about the stuff that he had found out or that Herbert had pulled her.

[00:34:17] What she discovers in her research is that Natalie isn't the person that she portrayed herself to be all those years.

[00:34:34] She did her work and she's been in her trial at all for parents with a force.

[00:34:40] So all those times would be alleged, our classes.

[00:34:44] Take any of those.

[00:34:45] There's no record of it.

[00:34:48] So her whole image of being this highly educated art.

[00:34:52] Art history was all a fallacy.

[00:34:55] It was all made in fact.

[00:34:56] And I'm not sure if it's all manufactured by her or if was,

[00:34:59] It may be textured by both her and her bird to further the technical as they need to get her to the public.

[00:35:04] good story. Yeah, and they needed somebody who was an expert in authority on color and art.

[00:35:09] And she had a natural I for it. Well, we know that technical or beaded her, we know

[00:35:16] that technical or benefited from all of the press that she got. We know that having

[00:35:22] her on set and Herbert not having to deal with the day to day kind of things has been

[00:35:28] official to them that a newspaper covering a woman in a high profile job. The positive

[00:35:35] thing, it wasn't hurting one thing if they were husband and wife also. Yeah, we also

[00:35:42] know that they were both complicit in that so it wasn't like she was masquerading as

[00:35:47] something that she wasn't even though she was. But so was Herbert if he wasn't

[00:35:53] telling people that they weren't married. Right. And I think it was because it was mutually

[00:35:58] beneficial to both of it. It's an interesting thing that she is so. Reviled, you know, like

[00:36:06] her character is so reviled. Yeah, because I think ultimately she did help. Technical

[00:36:11] color. Absolutely. Being in charge of the colored visor. Made technical or excel in

[00:36:18] the way that it did because people weren't correct. And unfortunately, it ended

[00:36:25] the way it did. She couldn't get out of her own way and allow herself to be successful.

[00:36:31] No, and what's unfortunate is that she has a piece of legacy. You go to her eye in which

[00:36:38] there are over 400 films credited on. You will see an image of her that is taken from a

[00:36:47] news article. Not even like good headshot or anything like that. The article says the

[00:36:52] industry's foremost example of the way who was interested in her husband worked,

[00:36:58] business. And that is from the article that they pulled up. And I don't know about you

[00:37:04] but I find that even so. Yeah, it's very dismissive for the amount of work did. I mean, how

[00:37:11] many times. Yeah, we're talking movie made by technicaler on. Yeah, for me over and over again.

[00:37:24] And other people who over her head the Westmore. The Westmore. I mean, we remember them

[00:37:30] fond and hold them to hold their words. Why not? Now, and when she brought up all of

[00:37:40] which let's be honest, that's the fun stuff we talk about. Is her legacy dessert? Yes, it is.

[00:37:47] Hands down. What's your problematic human being? Yes, that happens with a lot of creative.

[00:37:52] Yeah, her attitude forced people to be better because they didn't want to have to. And they

[00:37:58] wanted to rise above her skill become better at their own thing. So they didn't have to work

[00:38:04] so they were that color advisory board was so important to bring that standard up.

[00:38:11] These guys are having a battle here. It's a battle of the work and Natalie Kelly played out in

[00:38:17] dog. Also, she was a woman and a tactical position and a man's world at the time. And

[00:38:27] everybody else who were fluttered that. Yeah, and she lived to tell the tale.

[00:38:31] Yeah, with 400 credits. So Natalie Calmiss deserves a legacy, a lasting legacy and people should

[00:38:40] remember her name. Well, Fempty has an award called the Natalie and her root to tell me.

[00:38:49] That'll think about they established it in like five and they still get this out. That's awesome.

[00:38:55] Even though she herself never got this kind of award recognition because she was who she was at least the

[00:39:04] endist understand her impact and Fempty is celebrating. Well, there's a lasting, yeah, lasting legacy.

[00:39:13] I think anybody that has a metal name. Right. Yeah. Did something from Sempty which is like a governing

[00:39:19] body of broadcast like it's a standard. Yeah, so they recognized it. Well,

[00:39:27] hope you've enjoyed learning about Herbert and Natalie Calmiss. But Natalie Calmiss really. Who knew

[00:39:33] the story behind Technicolor was so colorful. Behind the scenes is just as beautiful as on the screen.

[00:39:41] Whoa. We really appreciate what Natalie Calmiss did. We make fun of the forks stuff.

[00:39:46] Like that. It's funny to laugh at. But we really appreciate what she said. You really feel like she

[00:39:52] whole, uh, well, she made real contributions. Yeah. Exactly. You know, without her, I don't think

[00:39:57] Technicolor would become the company. Yeah. And I think she should be more well known. And I'd be curious

[00:40:03] if anybody had ever actually heard of her. So yeah, I'd be heard of her. Yeah, let us know.

[00:40:08] It's not a be heard of her. What do you think about her legacy? Yeah. I think this is, you know, a really

[00:40:13] good discussion. Yeah. I'd be interested to hear because both sides. I mean, I can see both sides on

[00:40:19] us with this. Um, and I can see how she's at the flight to kind of person. But isn't anybody that's

[00:40:26] important? Kind of devices like that? Well, and I think anybody that made any contribution to anything

[00:40:32] in for there's going to be a very diverse. Yes. Exactly. Because what do we always say? We say there's

[00:40:38] your truth and my truth, but the real truth lies somewhere in the middle. That's perfect.

[00:40:46] Anyway, so glad you could join us talking about Natalie Kalmas and Tech to Color with

[00:40:50] the Tech to Color. That's such a treat. And if you have ideas for your episodes, please let us know.

[00:40:56] We always like hearing. Oh, I see. Yeah. Well, you do too. Until next time. Thanks for joining us.

[00:41:07] Here on Perfant. Stop standing at be what do you want? What is wrong with you? I am

[00:41:16] on a swathag a bad version of that article that appear that interview both of them.

[00:42:12] Who? Perfant and Natalie. Sorry. And at no point. You got jazz hands. I mean, I know you love

[00:42:23] us. But yeah. Come and dance.